{"id":2259,"date":"2016-11-01T02:53:27","date_gmt":"2016-11-01T02:53:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/?p=2259"},"modified":"2018-09-27T23:31:49","modified_gmt":"2018-09-27T23:31:49","slug":"groomed-for-heart-ache","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/codependent\/signs-codependency\/groomed-for-heart-ache\/","title":{"rendered":"Groomed for Heart-Ache"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2 class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Codependency: What it is &amp;\u00a0What it&#8217;s Not . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<h3>Our Narcissistic\/Codependent Society<\/h3>\n<p>What is Codependency? In today\u2019s show we\u00a0discuss the comments we received on the show Codependency &amp; Conscience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>On YouTube:<\/strong><br \/>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/R18wVlP4ymQ?rel=0\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"color: #800000;\">If You Have Enjoyed this Series Please Support Our Work by Purchasing Our Books! \u00a0<\/span><a title=\"Bookshop\" href=\"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/bookshop\/\">Bookshop<\/a><\/h3>\n<p><strong>On Sound Cloud:<\/strong><br \/>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/290909403&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;visual=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"450\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"color: #800000;\">If You Have Enjoyed this Series Please Support Our Work by Purchasing Our Books! \u00a0<\/span><a title=\"Bookshop\" href=\"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/bookshop\/\">Bookshop<\/a><\/h3>\n<h3>What is Codependency?<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Show Transcript:\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Hi.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Welcome to our Narcissistic-Codependent Society.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My name is Steve Cooper.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Kim Cooper is here in the studio with me today, but as she is off to Melbourne next week, this may be our last show for a little while.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yes, I am.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I can\u2019t wait!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But it\u2019s going to be strange having a holiday without my family this year. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, but you are going with a wonderful friend, so I know you both have a wonderful time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The most energetic 70 year old I know. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, you better take some good walking shoes, Kim, to keep up with her.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, well her legs are longer than mine!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, that\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay, in today\u2019s show, we are diving right into the comments we skipped over in our last show, and that will nicely open this topic.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Do you want me to read these, Kim, and then maybe you can comment on the comments?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Sure, why not?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Okay.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>These comments are from our show on \u201cCodependence and Conscience\u201d.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The first one is from Ellen.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Ellen says:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cI really love this segment of your podcast, although it hurt \u2014 ouch!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>When I look around, I see that the codependents in my world really do sacrifice their good judgment and conscience at times to those they are trying to please.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Everything Kim said was true!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I see this cropping up at times in myself as well.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Even though I have on this road to healing a while now, it still comes up and I still need to watch myself.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Good work, guys!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So glad you do this work, as there is nobody out there presenting both sides of this dysfunctional dance.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And by the way, there is hope.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My husband and I have been married 38 years and I can tell you that we have both changed and are doing great!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Wow, isn\u2019t that awesome?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, it\u2019s fantastic to get comments like that, isn\u2019t it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Agh\u2026 wonderful!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, and especially after 38 years of marriage. I know most people would say there was no hope of changing the patterns or the dynamic in a marriage after that long.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But we have seen quite a few testimonials from people \u2014 some in their 70s.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>All the time we see people talking about narcissism and narcissists, and how they are just so terrible, and the poor codependents are always just portrayed as the victims.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, while I knew that show on \u201cCodependence &amp; Conscience\u201d was going to be challenging, I am really glad, Ellen, that you actually faced up to it, and, you know, and despite the \u2018ouch\u2019 that you still did look at it and look at yourself.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It is hard to look at our own patterns of dysfunction.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And it really does take us a pretty consistent effort to change these patterns, if they have been what we have grown up with and have become ingrained in us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because if we have grown up feeling that this behavior is normal, or even good, and it\u2019s what our parents and our teachers have encouraged us to do \u2014 which, I guess could also be called grooming (laughing) \u2014 it is difficult, because our instincts kind of have been impaired, and it\u2019s tough to actually look at it in the light of day and actually say this isn\u2019t really very good that I have actually given so much of myself away and so much of my decision making and so much of my inner judgment that I have handed to somebody else.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, that\u2019s right, Kim.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I think it takes a long time to get to know yourself and be comfortable with who you are.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So that process might take longer than we had hoped, but by the time you get to know who you are, it\u2019s good to understand that is who you are, and your relationship.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You have to work with that \u2014 in your relationship. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But if you start working on changing these patterns <i>now<\/i>, where are you going to be in five years? And where are you going to be in five years if you don\u2019t start working on it? The five years down the track is still going to come, and I know for certain in our life that, you know, working on improving these patterns in ourselves has really taken us down a path that I couldn\u2019t have even really dreamed up, let alone hoped for (laughing)!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The next comment is from Jennifer, and Jennifer says, \u201cI am going to make a statement about codependence before leaving for work. I have not heard the taped conversation and did not read what you said, but there is a fine line between codependence, interdependence, and independence. Interdependence creates abundance and healthy interdependence creates healthy abundance.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Even if you say you are independent and live like Crocodile Dundee off the land in the Outback, you are severely <i>interdependent<\/i> on nature.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Even if you are a <i>codependent<\/i> living with a drug addict under the bridge of Route 69, you are interdependent with the welfare system, and whatever else is keeping you alive.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Telling a person they are codependent because they are trying to live a healthy, normal life is never fair!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Discovering what you are interdependent on\u2014being honest and aware of that and making changes\u2014is the way to a healthy interdependence.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>For years, my mum was called \u2018codependent\u2019 because she was married to a person with a mental syndrome called Asperger\u2019s.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>She was just trying to make family life nice for herself and her children.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>She was interacting with a hidden and undiagnosed behavior pattern.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>To say that she had the problem was not fair to her, so I really hate the term \u2018codependence\u2019.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I really like \u2018healthy interdependence\u2019\u2014so take it from there&#8230;\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Kim, there is lots of great things she has brought up there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Oh, and she has written a P.S. too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">\u201cP.S. I will listen to the recording tonight, when I have the time to.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Okay.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So this one is interesting, and before I comment on it, I think we should also read Susan\u2019s comment, which\u2014in a way\u2014is kind of correcting what Jennifer said.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Oh, it\u2019s in response to Jennifer?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Okay.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, Susan has said in response, \u201cCodependence is not the same as interdependence.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>They describe two different developmental stages.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Codependence is focused on symbiosis with other.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It feels it will die without getting a reflected sense of self from other.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The flip side is extreme independent stance, which is a reaction formation based on shaky sense of self and fear that what little self <i>is<\/i> there will get swallowed up by other\u2014fear of intimacy, etc.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Both have trouble maintaining a core sense of self without other to either cling to or run away from, or they swing back and forth together in a dysfunctional dance.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Interdependence, or adult differentiation (Bowen) is the mature personality that can hang onto core sense of self, <i>and<\/i> maintain intimacy with other.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>They do not blur the I\/thou relationship.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>What this talk is about, I think, is codependence and narcissism, and how they both have an immature sense of self, and how it can be dysfunctional in adult relationships.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Thank you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yes, well, I would agree with what Susan has said there. And I understand Jennifer\u2019s sentiments of feeling that it was maybe unfair to suggest that there was something wrong with her mother.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And, you know, I think this brings up a bit of a misunderstanding about what codependence is.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because codependence is not really you being interdependent or too dependent on someone. I see that is a really big mistake that a lot of women make, maybe after their first marriage has failed and they think they are addressing their codependence by becoming extremely independent, and they can even be somewhat judgmental of women who are not independent.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And they may act like being completely independent is more noble or more sane.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I really actually dispute that, because\u2014as Susan has mentioned\u2014these are really developmental stages.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And while it\u2019s healthy and good for a teenager to be learning some independence from their family, by the time we are mature adults we really should be able to work together as a team, and we really should be able to count on each other.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, this is where the term codependence can be very confusing\u2014and I think it also frightens people away from studying it, because I know that was true with me. I took a very long time to come around to studying it, because in my heart I wanted to be able to count on a man, and I wanted a relationship that was team oriented, and I really didn\u2019t want to be like (laughing) some of the women I knew who had become a little bit hard and bitter, and felt like the right thing was to do everything themselves.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, let\u2019s just make it really clear that codependence is emotional dependence.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And that means when you are actually depending on somebody else to keep you happy.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You are depending on somebody else to regulate your emotions.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And also\u2014sort of as Susan has mentioned\u2014that you are looking for a reflection of yourself in that person, that you feel they are the source of not just your conscience, but your whole life.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And that kind of neediness (or emotional neediness) in a relationship actually is counterproductive, and makes it harder for the couple to actually work together.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And really, one of the biggest defining terms of codependence is just that this is somebody who cares for another person, but really at their own expense to the point where it is actually damaging to themselves in some way.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So, this obviously isn\u2019t healthy, but it\u2019s not also necessarily something we want to point any kind of a finger of blame at.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s just a matter of actually looking and saying well, is this really going to make us the good person that a lot of people will pretend that it does; or do we actually need to learn to take care of ourselves and preserve our sense of self, and preserve that connection with ourself, because really that is a much healthier way of operating.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And it isn\u2019t really that difficult to learn.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And once you learn it, you know, you still can care for other people that may be in a less fortunate situation than yourself, without, necessarily, that being destructive to you or it meaning that you sort of lose your sense of self, or you lose your inner sense of guidance.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>That\u2019s such an important distinction, and it\u2019s really good that we talk about it, and give this time to really dive into it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because it\u2019s very easy to get the wrong idea, and I think your characterization of it, as being emotional dependence\u2014codependence being emotionally dependent on others\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u2014is a really accurate and helpful way to describe it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We can\u2019t be in more than one place at one time.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Any single one of us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You know, we have to be realistic about this life.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s busy.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And when you have kids, and you have a career, and you have people around you\u2014there is always too much to do.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And we have to just be realistic with ourselves\u2014we <i>have<\/i> to depend on other people.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah, we live in a specialized world.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>That\u2019s right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, we shouldn\u2019t be frightened of depending on one another from time to time as well, so there is a nice balance there to be found.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The next comment it from Jan (it actually could be J\u00e1n\u2014but you\u2019re never really quite sure, are you, if it\u2019s Jan or J\u00e1n?)<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Anyway (laughing), let\u2019s just go with Jan.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And Jan says, \u201cI really love and learn so, so much from your podcasts, your books, your workbooks.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yes, you are very, very good and have such wide words.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Thank you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Well, thank you, Jan (or J\u00e1n).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Oh, well, thank you.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The title of the show was really actually referring to how codependents actually talk about themselves, saying, you know, \u201ctell me I\u2019m good\u201d.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I wasn\u2019t actually asking for people to tell me that I\u2019m good, but thanks anyway, Jan.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It doesn\u2019t hurt.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I appreciate the compliment.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Okay, the next comment is from Lynn.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And Lynn has said, \u201cI have just listened to your podcast on \u2018Codependency and Narcissists\u2019.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My alcoholic-narcissist-soon-to-be-ex-husband is also very codependent.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We switched roles in the Drama Triangle several times from Victim to Accuser to Rescuer.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So what do you say to the codependent-narcissist who was never satisfied, even when he got what he wanted. He is now pretending he has been sober for a long time, yet no behavior or attitude change is present.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Narcissists rarely ever change\u2014thus, the divorce.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Well, I\u2019m sorry to hear that, Lynn. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmmmm.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yep.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Can I just jump in here quickly, Kim?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Sure.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I think there is something in AA that they recognize that a lot of people\u2019s behavior doesn\u2019t change when they are sober.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0 <\/span>The perhaps get a little more depressed.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>There is not necessarily a lot of behavior change, it\u2019s just they are not drinking anymore.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.)<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>That\u2019s right.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, they probably have a healthier liver and their bank account is probably a little bit better, but being addicted to alcohol doesn\u2019t mean that you are automatically depressed or a narcissist or anything like that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s all purely down to behavior and how you react and your habits.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Well, I think it\u2019s also why we have always recommended the Health Recovery Center for alcoholism, because their supplements-based program really does tackle the nutritional deficiency and the chemical imbalance going on in someone\u2019s body that has caused them to become an alcoholic in the first place.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And if that isn\u2019t addressed there is a saying, I think, which is called a \u201cdry drunk\u201d and I think that\u2019s what Lynn is describing here is somebody who has been sober for along time, but they still behave as if they are still an alcoholic.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And the other thing I have really noticed about AA is that the meetings can be a very bad trap.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>They can be as much a den of narcissism as a pub or a bar, where, you know, a bunch of ex-alcoholics get together and form a mutual fan club where they just build each other up and protect each other from looking at parts of themselves that maybe need looking at, and where they also justify spending a lot of time away from home.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, they are all things to look at.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Certainly, I really do believe that people can show signs of narcissism <i>and<\/i> codependence, and it\u2019s great that Lynn has actually seen that she has been a part of this of having switched roles\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u2014from Victim to Accuser to Rescuer.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I don\u2019t know, I think her question is probably rhetorical about \u2018what do you say to the codependent-narcissist who is never satisfied, even when he got what he wanted\u2019?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I don\u2019t know without knowing the circumstances (laughing).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.) Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I think that one is pretty tough to answer.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Yeah.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s a rhetorical question.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Sure.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But yeah, there is also a lot of pain in that rhetorical question for Lynn.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because it\u2019s very difficult\u2014managing a relationship is very difficult.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Each of us wants to please our partner.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And when that is not working or it\u2019s not clicking, and things get worse or go through cycles, you know, that can be very difficult.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And it can cause a lot of longstanding bitterness and disappointment.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>All I can really recommend is that sober or not sober, married or divorced, I still really highly recommend that you follow the steps that we outline, particularly in <i>Back from the Looking Glass<\/i> and <i>10 Steps to Overcome Codependence<\/i> yourself\u2014and that is going to put you in a position of strength, regardless of what he is doing.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>The next comment is from Sheila, and Sheila says, \u201cI am having difficulty wrapping my mind around it all, but the seeds are planted\u201d (and we got a nice little winking emojicon there).<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cAs my brain things on it passively, I see examples of it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Maybe it will be clearer to me.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Thank you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Well, thanks, Sheila. And, yeah, that really is the trick is looking for examples of this in our life around us, and that is kind of the whole idea of the show, really, \u201cOur Narcissistic-Codependent Society\u201d, because really the examples <i>are<\/i> all around us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We are immersed in it constantly.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So it really does take some vigilance and some clarity of mind to remember what the healthier or more balanced way of reacting might be.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We got a long comment here from Liz.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Thanks, Liz, for writing.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>She says, \u201cHi, Kim and Steve.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I am so happy to finally get the help and information you are providing.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I agree with most of what you said in the audio. I am codependent, but neither of my parents are alcoholics or addicts. I believe my codependency came from my mom. I am the oldest of three.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I am 48 years old.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>While growing up, mom stayed home with the kids and dad worked. Mom is very kind, compassionate, and loving\u2014always cooking, baking, cleaning, and taking care of everyone.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>There were always family gatherings and our friends always came over while dad was working at night. My mom always gave us beautiful birthday parties.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>She was always outgoing and happy during those times, but other times she was so sad and stressed because dad didn\u2019t give her affection or attention, and wasn\u2019t emotionally available for her\u2014or us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My dad was abused as a child and left home at the age of 13.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>He was very mentally, and sometimes physically, abusive to my mom. I remember talking to my mom about it all the time.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I felt to sad for her and powerless to hand.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Sometimes I did stand up for my mom and tell my dad to stop and I shouted at him. He would either grab me by my face or push me out of the way.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Eventually, my mom did stand up for herself and made plans to leave my dad and get divorced.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I was so happy and relieved to finally get away from all of that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And then when my dad was told about this, he would cry and plead and beg for days for my mom not to leave him.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>This happened many times.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My mom always gave in, feeling sorry for dad, saying how much he needed us and didn\u2019t have anyone else.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>My mom couldn\u2019t handle seeing my dad upset.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Sometimes she would cry after seeing my dad sad.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>She put up with the same behavior time and time again.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I was so hurt inside.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>After seeing this for years, unfortunately, I ended up being exactly the same as mom\u2014with some differences. I am ready to get the help I need and move past this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Well, Liz, that is just such a sad story.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But congratulations and you have our full support that you are ready to change that pattern.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Your story is really a great one to show that codependence really does go beyond families where there is alcoholism or drug addiction. It really is an emotional pattern of behavior, and really happens to some wonderful people\u2014like your mom sounds like a wonderful person.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But, unfortunately, she was lacking skills and emotional regulation in how to deal with the neglect she was facing from your father without enmeshing you in it, and putting expectations on you that really wasn\u2019t fair, because of course you were going to want to help in that situation, but you were just a child.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And if she had no idea to help herself, how could you have possibly known better, when she was your main role model?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, really, you were set up in a situation that you had no ability to win.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You were expected to help, but there was really no way you were going to know how to do that, or should have been expected to know how to do that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And\u2014this is a really important point\u2014the chain has to break somewhere.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And making that decision that you are not going to be that person for a parent any longer can be a tough decision and can take some time. It doesn\u2019t mean that you will stop having a relationship with them. It actually means that in time your relationship will probably improve.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But even more importantly, you really, really must learn that it\u2019s not fair expecting your children to do that for you.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And sometimes that doesn\u2019t feel fair, you know, if you have grown up where you have been an emotional support person for other people, you start to feel like, hey, well, it\u2019s my turn now and I should be able to expect that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But it really is damaging for your children.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I think you have really expressed in a very clear and very emotional way with your story just how damaging it is and the ways that it is damaging.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because you want so much to help; you care so much, but what can you do?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>There is nothing that you can do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Now, while your story may seem hopeless and you may feel there was nothing that your mom could have done, I assure you that that isn\u2019t the case.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I really do hope that you are working through the steps in <i>Back from the Looking Glass<\/i> and the steps in <i>10 Steps to Overcome Codependence <\/i>to learn better and more effective ways of standing up for yourself than just leaving, and then ending up going back when your partner begs your forgiveness and you feel sorry for them.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And there are a lot of people that will say that, you know, you were a sucker for going back\u2014or may have said that your mom was a sucker for going back to your dad\u2014but I really don\u2019t feel that. Your mom was obviously a compassionate person and there obviously was some love between them.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And really, if anything, I would say her gap was she didn\u2019t effectively know how to limit the abusive behavior, and she didn\u2019t know how to effectively stand up for herself.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And, you know, we all have gaps in our skill set in some places (laughing), and that\u2019s not judgmental or pointing a finger, it\u2019s just how it is. I think very few of us actually end up getting parents who really have all of the character traits we needed, and that\u2019s where it does become important as we get older to look for role models that we can learn from in some of those gap areas.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I think from my perspective too\u2014and I grew up in a very abusive family myself\u2014that it\u2019s very difficult as a kid to be able to reconcile it\u2014it\u2019s almost impossible. I\u2019ve been there too and it\u2019s really, really hard.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You know, you rely so much on your parents when you are a kid\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u2014and when you see them\u2014you know, you see a lot of happiness in your family, I think like Liz was explaining. You know, there were great times as well, where there was a lot of functionality.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But it\u2019s when the dysfunction pops its head up it seems so pronounced because it just seems so unnecessary, and it\u2019s very difficult to come to terms with, and I feel for you, Liz.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And thank you for your story.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We really appreciate it, that you were able to share your story with us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, this is the end of our 10<\/span><span class=\"s2\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> show in this first series.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I am not sure when we will be back to do more, if ever.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We probably will, it depends on how popular they become and how much response that we get for the shows we have already done.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Coming up to Thanksgiving and Christmas, it\u2019s a busy time of the year, but it also is a time of the year where, unfortunately, the stress at home can cause the escalation in fights and in incidence of domestic abuse.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, we really do encourage you to please share the shows we have made in this short series with people who you feel may need them and may appreciate them.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We do very, very little advertising these days and we very much rely on word of mouth and we rely on people helping us spread the word.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We have been eight years helping people online, and the way our system is set up it means that help and support is accessible 24 hours a day from really anywhere in the world that you are, as long as you\u2019ve got an internet connection.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I also would highly recommend that you check out <i>10 Steps to Overcome Codependence. <\/i>If you buy it as a download, it is very inexpensive.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s a reference book you can keep turning back to to remind yourself, because, really, this isn\u2019t a behavior pattern that you are going to change from just reading a book once and leaving it on the shelf.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>That\u2019s why we have set up our system as we have.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">After your purchase the book, if you sign up for an Introductory Special on the front page of TheNCMarriage.com, after you purchase the book, in about a day, you will be sent an invitation to join our membership site.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Memberships start from as low as $19 a month, and for that you really get a lot.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You get group support that you have access to 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You get access to a lot more material.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And it\u2019s not just having Steve and I available to help support you and answer questions, it\u2019s a whole community of people online, many of whom have been working through our material for many years.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Some of them have had success in their marriages and they are just there helping other people.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Some people, their marriage is still a work in progress. Most of them do feel like the steps that we offer and the lifestyle changes that we offer is a source of strength and support to them, or they wouldn\u2019t be coming back and they wouldn\u2019t still be there.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, I really do encourage you, if you haven\u2019t already, to do an Introductory Special on the front page of TheNCMarriage.com, where you can sign up and join our mailing list, and also that you check out <i>Back from the Looking Glass<\/i> and <i>10 Steps to Overcome Codependence<\/i>, which, after you finish the Introductory Special, you will be offered at a discount\u2014and then a day later, you will be sent the invitation to join the membership site.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And even if you feel that you really don\u2019t need this, or it isn\u2019t the right time for you, I really do ask that you think of somebody that you can share this show or share our information with, because, the way our world is today, I bet that you do know somebody who needs\u2014let\u2019s just say a helping hand and a sense of strength\u2014in dealing with what they are dealing with at home.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So, Kim, I hope you have a wonderful time walking around Melbourne next week.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM: <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You are so jealous, aren\u2019t you?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I am.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s our favorite place, isn\u2019t it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s going to be sad being there without you, but I am still going to have a wonderful time!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I am sure you are.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And thanks, it\u2019s been really a lot of fun doing \u201cThe Narcissistic-Codependent Society\u201d, because our society <i>is<\/i> very narcissistic and codependent.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But understanding is all we\u2019ve got.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>It\u2019s a wonderful skill. If we can move to understand it, we can then move through it, with knowing what is in front of us.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Mmm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And we encourage everybody to keep learning.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Keep learning more and more about this.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Read everything you can, with a critical eye on it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Kim and I come from a place where we really have just a place where we can share some very positive experiences about our experience with you.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And we don\u2019t have an agenda.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>No.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>(Laughing.) I can\u2019t believe though, how just fraught with pain and confusion my life was before I actually found out about these patterns of behavior, and until I actually found out more about them to the point where I could recognize them and I could find some meaning and some understanding in what was going on around me, and also find a path out of the confusion and out of the emotional pain.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Kim, I\u2019ve had lots of fun doing these recordings with you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Thanks, Steve.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Okay, so goodbye everyone, and hopefully we will be talking to you again soon in the forums.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">STEVE:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And don\u2019t forget to keep commenting.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">KIM:<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Bye!<\/span><\/p>\n<h3><span style=\"color: #800000;\">If You Have Enjoyed this Series Please Support Our Work by Purchasing Our Books! \u00a0<\/span><a title=\"Bookshop\" href=\"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/bookshop\/\">Bookshop<\/a><\/h3>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Codependency: What it is &amp;\u00a0What it&#8217;s Not . . .\u00a0 Our Narcissistic\/Codependent Society What is Codependency? In today\u2019s show we\u00a0discuss the comments we received on the show Codependency &amp; Conscience. On YouTube: If You Have Enjoyed this Series Please Support Our Work by Purchasing Our Books! \u00a0Bookshop On Sound Cloud: If You Have Enjoyed this&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2261,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[107],"post_series":[83],"class_list":["post-2259","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-signs-codependency","tag-podcasts","post_series-podcasts","entry","has-media"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2259","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2259"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2259\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2261"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2259"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2259"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2259"},{"taxonomy":"post_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/narcissismcured.com\/thencmarriage\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/post_series?post=2259"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}